Alex Jensen: It’s October 1^st a Friday, a fresh new month and you’re listening to day one of the Koreabizcast era of proper post pilot week. I’m Alex Jensen, and it’s great to be with you today. Now, if there’s one industry Korea loves to promote abroad, it’s K-pop. Do you know the top 3 markets for album sales? You’ll find out soon as we connect with the joint founder of an entertainment company that sees itself as a human focused production agency for idols, performers, and creators. Korea also likes to see itself as innovative. And apparently the rest of the world does too, based on one index after another, as President Moon Jae-In, recently boasted via social media will ask what the situation’s really like in the tech industry on the ground here. And just quickly as we embark on this Koreabizcast adventure with the KBLA we’d love it. If you could give us some feedback, get involved in our Koreabizcast community or just share a great idea. Send us a message via LinkedIn, just search KBLA.

Alex Jensen: You may have heard about concerns of K-pop again, coming under pressure in China following years of effective sanctions targeting South Korean products and companies stemming from Seoul’s military alliance with the US well, looking at this purely through the K-pop lens. It’s interesting to note that China’s fallen in status to the third biggest market behind both the US and Japan for album sales as of last year, according to the Korea customs service. To put a value on that South Korean album exports were valued at 123 million US dollars from January through November 2020. with China accounting for just $16 million of that, but nonetheless, let’s check in on the K-pop business with SG entertainment co-founder and CFO Thomas Sommer. Thanks for being with us today.

Thomas Sommer: Thank you, Alex, I’m glad to be here.

Alex Jensen: And we’ll come to the business side in a moment. But I’ve got to ask how does a European with a history of working outside the music industry abroad for that matter, end up co-founding an entertainment agency in Korea?

Thomas Sommer: Yes, I can understand it appears it might appear original. And I can tell you for sure. It was not a suggestion from my alumni career counselor to do that. It was it was my decision. And of course, when I decided to come here, it turns many, many, many heads. And a lot of people did not understand. But in fact, I came to Korea with my co-founder, Joon Hae Spielmann, who was born in Korea. And he’s also one of my oldest friends actually, I met him back in the in high school. And he’s been working in the industry pretty much his whole life. So, for him, it was not that much of a change. As for me, I have a more diversified background. I’ve worked in banking, I’ve worked in tech. And throughout my career, what I realized I enjoyed above all is creation and pioneering. And that’s kind of how we met and where we met for this project. So, he came to me with the idea that he already had developed for a while. That was roughly four years ago. And then we decided to go to Korea together and start this company.

Alex Jensen: Well, speaking of international connections, as I said that the geopolitics of China is legitimately now an occupational hazard. Even with the strength of other markets. How unusual is this industry that you’ve got yourself into K-pop? Obviously, a big source of soft power, like a lot of types of entertainment are generally but, in this country, it feels like the music industry is intertwined with national identity, pride, and it becomes almost like a diplomatic tool. Is that a bit odd for you?

Thomas Sommer: Yes, you’re right. It’s not so much. That it’s odd, because I’ve been in it for some time, and I’ve kind of like grown accustomed to it. I think that many types of music has kind of stood as representatives of their culture or the trend in the past you could think of, I don’t know, for instance, do you think the mariachi for the Mexicans or punk rock for Britain, you know, music and entertainment have always been linked to broader cultural and societal context. But in the K-pop case, however, I think it’s the first time that you see that a country’s government has produced has contributed such a massive organizing sustained push in order to leverage a cultural product for its national interest and for the development of its international soft power. So, this is also something which is true at the level of the government for other cultural products such as movies and drama series and K-dramas. So, you can see like the incorporation of cultural products into this institutionalized government sponsored system of global promotion, I think is the real innovation brought forth by K-pop and Hallyu in general

Alex Jensen: And also even more specifically, we’ve got this phenomenon of a BTS effects when I first came to Korea K-pop was big. People were talking about Girls Generation, Big-Bang and things like that. And, and even then, we didn’t have an idea of how big it could get with BTS. They appeared at the UN on more than one occasion now, which also underscores the diplomatic role of K-pop act. But how do you view the wild success of BTS a kind of outlier in K-pop or even a sign of more things to come?

Thomas Sommer: Today I think that BTS are kind of an outlier in terms of how much really like the sheer amount of how much they contributed to increasing Korea’s international soft power. This is something other groups have not reached. There’s no other app that has had so much fame and exposure globally as them more generally, I think the two groups that performed the best on the international stage are BTS and BLACKPINK. For kind of a little bit different reasons. However, I think what they managed to do and represent is to embody the values that many of young people today aspire to throughout the world, and which concern not only the physical appearance, like how they look, but also the more like the inner beauty, which is expressed through the beautiful values like generosity, compassion, determination, courage, and the capacity of speaking out and affirming oneself in the world, which is something that they managed to embody really well. So how they manage for me, this is how they managed to achieve this global success. And in the case of BTS, for instance, go as far as speaking before the UN a couple of times, and in the case of BLACKPINK, to become ambassadors for very famous French luxury brands such as Dior and CHANEL.

Alex Jensen: Well, you’ve touched on a few things I wanted to ask about, including what explains K-pops popularity abroad and how people in all different countries from various different cultural backgrounds have all been able to identify with this phenomenon. I mean, like my niece, for example, and my nephews in London, was surprising me a couple of years ago when they were asking me about BTS and BLACKPINK. And I was like, what are free elementary age kids are hearing about these Korean groups, that’s a serious level of exposure that they’ve been able to get already. And they’re entrenched. Like, do you think that it’s evolving still in terms of this role abroad? And is there anything else that explains it, why even young kids are getting into this music particularly rather than all of the products that are coming out in their own countries?

Thomas Sommer: Yes, I have some ideas about it first is the there’s something that everyone can see is the bright side of K-pop is something you know, you have all these very flashy visuals and this beautiful aesthetics that are very pleased and for young people. There is also the capacitor the fact that they are dancing together, and you have all those, this kind of like acting together that you can reproduce with your friends, so you can kind of get involved that way. And this is something which is this aspect of being very bright, very happy, very participant ID is really has really helped keep up success. And I think on a more on a deeper level, there is the fact that, you know, as you’re living in Korea and K-pop is born out of Korea, it’s really representative of the Confucius ideal of living together of the community. And the way that the band members, the group members interact with each other, but also interact with the fans in a very kind of harmonious camaraderie way is very well received and very well liked in the West. At a time when you know, the perspectives for society and for the future. I’m not that bright, and we kind of have forgotten there’s a lot of strife, there’s a lot of problems within society. And we’ve are kind of looking how to live together again, in a harmonious way. And this, I think this is something that K-pop groups managed to represent really well.

Alex Jensen: You mentioned one of those collaborations with the corporate world, too. how influential are those? Both with the group collaborations they do and the global brand collaborations? It seems like that brings it to a bigger audience, still the ones who have not been Seoul the first time around for the fact as you already mentioned, well, we’re getting this further exposure through these huge brand collaborations.

Thomas Sommer: Yes, right. I mean, this is something kind of, for me, it’s the logical continuity of have this success of K-pop of the internationalization of K-pop as well for me it’s a sign of maturity of that industry. But it also means that K-pop industry is getting more reliant on the on this on these collaborations both with Western artists and Western brands, in order to sustain its success to sustain its kind of image. This is also why we team that, for instance, we are, we don’t have any kind of new group that has succeeded as well as BTS and BLACKPINK for boy’s groups and girl’s groups, respectively until now. So, for the industry, in my sense, it is a way to kind of kick to continue the success by diversifying and starting to work and to collaborate with other actors on the international stage as well. It’s a way for these Korean groups to keep on shining on that stage.

Alex Jensen: But we’ve got to believe, don’t we, that there is another BTS out there somewhere. And let’s just say you’re looking for the next big thing or trying to uncover it with so many young kids growing up here, dreaming of K-pop success, they attain Hakwon learning how to dance and sing. I think, by the way that Noraebang culture has a lot to thank for when it comes to like just raising the bar for singing in this country compared with my upbringing in the UK. But seriously, what is the difference? What do you think are the factors that you would be looking for that would mean success or ultimate failure?

Thomas Sommer: Yes, you’re right to say that there is a huge performance culture in Korea. And this is why there’s so many very talented young people in this country. talented in dancing, talented in singing, there is both the Noraebang culture as you said, there’s also the very strong culture of you know, of training very hard, from a very, very early and young age. This is this make for a broad pool of talented people. But when you’re talking about success, and how to start the next, the next star is I think it’s important to redefine success in a in a healthy way. Because oftentimes nowadays, success has kind of been corrupted, to mean to a rather superficial definition that revolves more around money or quick fame, something like that, and does not take into account other very important aspects of existence of what is to what it is to succeed on a personal level. For us, and this is, I think this is really true in the increasing increasingly these days is that success is first and foremost, to achieve a goal that you set yourself in relationship to yourself to what you can do, and to others in order to be happy and fulfilled. And later, popularity comes from learning how to please others by inspiring them and you know, wanting to make them look up to you and follow the model you embody. This is how success comes along. And I think that’s what BTS fans has managed to do really well. So, in a way, singing and dancing is no longer enough to communicate, you need to interact, and need to develop, develop yourself and with your environment, so that that experience that you offer, can gain influence and become and renew successively long term. So, this is why at SG entertainment, we don’t only look at the performative aspect, of course, dancing well is great, is really necessary to look great to sing well, and to bring about a great performance. But what matters more in the long term, and I think this is something that Western audience can relate to that really well is to have that bond with the audience is to bring it bring forward your personal feelings and your personal history in order to establish that kind of communion between yourself and your fans. And with that bond, you can then later evolve with your fans over the long term. And, you know, depending on the environment that changes and, and how everyone kind of evolved along the way, you can keep yourself at that level. If over several decades. You can think of artists like Bob Dylan, for instance, or more recently Ed Sheeran to have success that spans over decades because they keep on evolving with the fans and bring about the best of themselves.

Alex Jensen: Well, I do notice your company adds human focused as a descriptor, does that imply then some pushback against what might either appear to be a grueling industry or cutthroat heartless world where, you know, we’ve even seen suicides in the most tragic circumstances? Does it suggest that you’re trying to take a stand of sorts, or at least make your world within the industry, something that’s more pleasant to be in?

Thomas Sommer: Yes, I agree that there’s a lot of things that can, you know, be perceived as tragic or perceived as very harsh in the industry, but I’m wary of judging it from too much of a Western perspective in terms of how the industry operates. However, it can be improved. So, when we say that we believe in human first is that we want artists to succeed over the long term, and have careers that span over many years, as I said earlier, or even decades. So, for us, it’s not an approach that just is just able to defend differentiate ourselves from the competition or say we’re not like them, or just you know, to get an ESD label slapped onto That’s not the point. We, the point is to say that we operate in this industry where, you know, it’s the humans, and not only how they look but also how they act, but they do what they would present. That is the product that is what’s going to drive success in the long term. So, developing first developing the human potential is a direct determining factor of long-term profitability. It’s just logical. So, I can you can see this for two reasons. First of all, the artist won’t be likely to burn out or be afflicted with those personality disorders that you mentioned, like you know, anxiety, depression by flirting, and all the way to sometimes suicide unfortunately. And then there’s also the fact that you know, very healthy people positive role models that fans can aspire to. And to become an that can be a real market differentiator, essentially in the world of today where health and mental well-being become have gotten to the top of people’s priorities.

Alex Jensen: Yes, and understandably so a Thomas summer it’s been a pleasure hearing from you know, when we started this podcast, we started talking about it we realized, you know, if we just did interviews about groups like BTS, we probably get lots of interest, but it wouldn’t necessarily be the angle we’d want to go to. But even going down the business road, we’ve still been able to talk about BTS Thomas Sommer, thanks to you. And I’d love to catch up with you again, because I think your industry is fascinating. For now. Thank you very much for taking the time today. Sure.

Thomas Sommer: Thanks, Alex.

Alex Jensen: I think we’re gonna have to check in again with the entertainment industry in the near future. But for now, let me just remind you to get in touch with us if you want to join this network as a Koreabizcast sponsor, we’ve got some really exciting sponsorship announcements coming up. And this might be the perfect platform for you to if you want to find out more, just send us an email via info@kbla.net.

Alex Jensen: So, it would appear that South Korea’s tech industry should be booming you may have seen president Moon Jae-In boasting of the country’s rapid rise to fifth out of 132 countries on the global innovation index and top in Asia. Also we saw recently how the US based RAND Corporation plays South Korea 12 globally, ahead of both Germany and Japan, for instance, for market value of original technologies developed by startups found to be 31 and a half billion US dollars here now based in Seoul is insanely an early stage investor in frontier tech and AI powered enterprise companies and unsafe is with us on the podcast right now. Thank you for taking the time.

Eunse Lee: Thank you for having me. It’s great to be here with you at least virtually

Alex Jensen: well. Yeah, I would say good morning, glad to keep remembering people could be listening at any time of day around the world. And that’s the goal. So, wherever you happen to be, good morning, good afternoon, good night and say I know you are here in this city of Seoul as I am. And I’d like to start with your story because you have been in the US as well, haven’t you?

Eunse Lee: Yes, yes. So, I’m a courier founder. By the way, I’m really proud of that actually. I started as a management consultant strategy consultant than my own far back in 2008. I was so since I have been wrong, because I thought that was just about getting smart kids and doing some cool stuff and spreadsheets and PowerPoint. Obviously, I was so wrong and so naive. And also, right after we started LTE fired all these McKinsey consultants and say, guess what, guys, we don’t need you guys anymore, because now we can do it and we were just starting, right? So, he was he was he was like a disaster. And you know, after the very heated debates and you know, a few table founding, we decided to create our own strategy framework. So at least we don’t get fired for that reason. That’s a real story. And we did that we create, we came up with our own strategies framework. That was actually pretty disruptive at the time as a new form. But you know, once we made once we sort of closed our first deal, then we could find our place pretty quickly. My firm was liquidated back in 2015. And I was approached by these two gentlemen from Los Angeles. And they were building a venture capital firm, and then flew them to Korea was such an important element because you know, Korea was really sort of solid and in strong terms like tech capability. So, I joined them. You know, long story short. I, we came back to Korea back in 2018. Because we had a very nice family edition. We you know, our baby girl tagged along. And then at that time, tech store is one of the largest sort of startup accelerator was coming to Korea, and I was fortunate enough to take the role as the mincing director of Techstars Korea, and then I was with Techstars until last year, and this year, you I sort of I founded again, a venture capital firm in Los Angeles, which I like to keep it is, you know, low profile for now because I’m preparing for a grand opening. So that’s a that’s sort of brief background of mine.

Alex Jensen: Well, you’re already setting us up for a sequel here by teasing your future prospects. And congratulations, by the way, I always love hearing about the resilience in these success stories, people never seem to have a completely smooth ride. And also on your family edition that he mentioned there. But can I ask you how important these indices are, for example, when we look at Bloomberg innovation index, South Korea’s right at the top in the latest one announced this year, the US dropped out of the top 10 which got a lot of attention. But then with these latest indices being unveiled, as well does it influence investors, particularly when they hear that South Korea is so prominent?

Eunse Lee: So, I guess those indices, they have their place in, you know, innovation ecosystem. Like for example, you know, most of the US investors, they were like, you know, investors to us like so, you know, investor is investor, right? These guys are like, by and large, pretty American. So what that means for them emerging ecosystem is like, you know, like Houston, Texas, right, that’s definitely was an ecosystem for them, not like Korea, Japan, when that so every time such, like, indices are introduced, and, you know, emerging ecosystem outside the United States, get a position in that, you know, rankings, I think it’s helpful for, for them to refresh sort of their attention and, you know, make them take a take a look at outside the United States. So I think there’s a positive, you know, there’s a positive side of that, in terms of the correct reflection of what’s going on in such countries or territories.. I believe that they’re trying, they’re doing the best to be scientific, by gathering like, you know, data and statistics. In a sense, I don’t think it’s still correct on reflection of what’s going on in that country. But then again, I think it gives a pretty good snapshot about you know, how this country is doing in terms of like, attempting to nurture this platform for the innovation in you know, in respective countries.

Alex Jensen: Yeah, well let’s talk about South Korea state of innovation then based on your ground level view, which might be more accurate than what these indices try to achieve when they have to look at every country by the same barometers would you say there are any particular reasons, you’re noticing first on the positive side that would explain why South Korea is considered so innovative.

Eunse Lee: Yeah, thank you thank you for the question. Korea was actually built on innovation that what do you what do I mean by that? So, I have this I wish I could show you this two pictures right. These two pictures are taken toward approximately the same place from proximately the same angle The only difference is the timeframe so you know the left one on my slide was taken back in 1968 and the right one the one on the right side is taken back in 2008 so the only difference is the time on the left side in the picture there’s not we can see a little like mountain and empty ground and a river that’s all we see. But on the right side it’s Gangnam I’m actually so you know Gangnam style you know what it’s like right? Well, we’ll just say is this like we even though we had nothing in the left side picture that’s when the great companies like Samsung, LG and Hyundai and rename it they were born because literally we got nothing right and we had to we had to build everything from the ground up. And these guys these great companies and also great entrepreneurs of this great companies were they kicked in and they built the whole country based on the innovation so that’s that’s the that’s that that’s the foundation of Korea. And what’s really important even more important is this great companies and now become became anchor firm. and confirm means the company that has sizable operation, so obviously they have their unique value chain in that sort of ecosystem also globally, based on their operation and value chain. They play a critical role in innovation system, right? So that’s an anchor for like, for example, Samsung, they have you know, it’s one of the largest companies in the world, so obviously they have great value chain in Korea and also outside Korea. And from the value chain, they’re creating, like, you know, so much value for everyone in ecosystem, right? That’s the concept. So, we are reducing trade sort of knowledge spillover and talents sort of transition in movement for around this anchor firm. And besides, and also we have great, you know, education institutions in Korea. So, they’re like producing great talent. By the way, talent is really important in innovation. Because, you know, at the end of the day, like people are, you know, the ones that behind any great innovation, right? So, I believe that Korea has a very dynamic, but yet robust platform for innovation. And we just saw this little Korean company went public and the company’s called Coupang in the United States. So, I think I think we’re seeing this sort of inflection point that Korea is leveraging on the platform into the future state of innovation. So that’s, that’s my, that’s my take on that.

Alex Jensen: Because innovation also relies on looking and moving forward to do so effectively probably relies on some self-reflection. So, what could be done better, even when you’re at or near the top?

Eunse Lee: That’s a great question. I would like to see some more diversity in Korea to be honest. So according to Richard Florida, he’s like fascinating researcher in, in economics and also geography. In his theory, if you’re prosperous, then that’ll drive diversity in your sort of ecosystem economy. And then such diversity will again drive you know more innovation and you know, obviously from there more prosperity, I think Korea is craving curious, curious does such a great job in with this, like, I would say sort of, you know, compressed, like growth for the past, like, you know, like, past decades, but then, in order to continue this growth up and leave that diversity will play a critical role in such growth in the future. So, I would love to see more diversity in Korea.

Alex Jensen:  When you say diversity, though, there’s all sorts of variations that could enhance the way we’re currently doing things from personnel, where they’re from their gender, their age, their background, etc. But there’s also diversity in the types of companies and the size of companies, what would you see as being the most important type of diversity to introduce here?

Eunse Lee: Exactly, right. I mean, that’s, that’s a great question. So obviously, you know, great company, you know, large, large companies, they have their place in, like ecosystem, like I said, you know, like, probably, like, you know, like, as anchor firms in ecosystem, however, more sort of nimble, agile, and also more sort of sensitive to the needs of the market. market is, by the way, just a group of people, right. I mean, there’s no such things like, you know, market as a physical thing, right. So, I believe this, like smaller companies, or even startups, they have greater sense for the needs of the market. So, I think I think we just need to have like a really good balance between these like, sort of legacy companies, like anchor firms and newcomers into the market like startups. So that yes, I believe that these two sort of Group of Companies have different places in the market, however, both are like, like very critical.

Alex Jensen:  I’m curious also how you view the government’s role as we’re seeing now the central government particularly pushing hard to regulate companies previously seem to be at the forefront of products that people might associate with innovation, the KAKAO, NEVER and Coupang of this world for instance, is it a positive step by the authorities to protect smaller firms and startups? Or is it a worry for the whole business community that this could be top-down regulation?

Eunse Lee: So, I think I believe that that’s sort of part of the natural life cycle of any large company like you when you are when you’re large enough then obviously you will get lots of attention like wanting to or not want it from like, like different folks. So, I think I think it’s just part of like natural life cycle, right? But then again, in terms of like, this large corporate large technology companies trying to take their sort of market shares in like smaller sub industry. First of all, like, I’m not an expert on this, right, I do enterprise identity consumer. So, my view on this could be very biased and also, sometimes not sufficient enough. But then again, you know, sometimes, I mean, companies get big enough they were disrupted, but you know, as They grow, they become disrupted, right? That’s also lifecycle of a company. And sometimes that could come from different sides like, like from the government side. So, again, I don’t see, first of all, I don’t think it’s like a great thing for them to sort of try to squeeze the juice out of this, like smaller, like, economist’s sectors. But I would say it’d be, I think the government is playing his role. And for companies, I don’t think it’s something that they should be worried about. But then again, I think it’s something that they can see that as part of their life cycle, and then trying to try to help people continue to grow in new ways. So that’s, that’s my take on it

Alex Jensen:  The situation surrounding larger conglomerates are terrible, though, has been seen as a negative by some people for the last few years after the involvement in post war recovery that you highlighted before as being particularly important. There’s this view that they aggressively buy up affiliates and saturate industries, for you as an investor taking a lot of interest in startups and smaller companies. Is it a big concern for you? And how do you view the role of the chairman today?

Eunse Lee: Yes, again, that’s, that’s a, that’s a great question, Alex. So, if you take a look at the history, like, like I said, these large corporations were born almost right after the war, where we had literally nothing, right? So obviously, for them, like, they had lots of possibilities, but at the same time, they were sort of tasked to feel this, every corner that was empty, right, they were empty. So, for example, Samsung, a lot of people don’t know this, Samsung owns theme park, and even make like the one off. So, you know, these are sort of very natural sort of evolution of the company that they’re eating, like, you know, so many horizontal spaces. So, I think I think that’s, that’s sort of what happened, because of the situation that we had, you know, right after the war until, you know, very, I would say, like, even like, you know, 20 years, like back, right, so I was pretty recently. As opposed to that, if you if you think about technology, right? technology, technologies, technology, do they do they make things in a faster, cheaper, and better, right? In terms of that, I believe that, you know, technology companies still have lots of headroom for, for their sort of Inception and growth, because society’s changing, the community is changing, they have different needs. And, you know, obviously, like I said, you know, this smaller company can be much more nimble and agile than the larger companies. So, I believe that, um, they tend to still have, you know, still plenty of headroom for growth. So, I don’t I’m not really concerned about large companies in so many different things. But I would love to see them play in more sort of, like, you know, fair manner, then. Like, you know, I don’t have any specific worry, in that.

Alex Jensen:  Well, it’s interesting, because to not pick on KAKAO, but to mention them in his example. They have ruffled the feathers of everyone from taxi drivers to flower sellers, because of the way they operate various spaces now, almost like a new style Chaebol without the long family history. And I wonder if you think that is true innovation, aggressively seeking affiliates in that way, you gave us a brief definition of technology, making things easier and faster just before but isn’t there also an element of digitalization there and a new way of doing things moving away from the old table model?

Eunse Lee: Look, so again, thanks. Thank you for the question. And so, I believe that those sort of, I would say slow changing industry or the industries that are sort of crawling to technological disruption, I believe that those changes will happen anytime, anyway, in any future. So again, like back to stasis (34’29”) KAKAO I’m not trying to pick a KAKAO or like anyone, but I think I think these sort of slower changing industries should be ready for technological innovation. And I don’t think it’s necessarily something that we should criticize, you know, for KAKAO to do something in such industries. But then again, again, I think it’s about like, how sort of fair they try to make such endeavor like, you know, For example, taxi drivers, right? I mean, right now KAKAO was almost a dominant player in like ride hailing in Korea, and they sort of play around like different fees and stuff. I can understand because, you know, it’s a public company, and when you’re a public company, then you’re faced with, like, such a great sort of push to be to continue growth. So, I can definitely understand it. But then I don’t think it’s really fair to play around, you know, leveraging on such dominant, sort of, you know, status in the market. So, I think I think back to the question to the regulators, right, I think that the regulators are doing their own doing their job. And then, you know, in doing so, like, I believe that we can figure out we can find sort of balancing point between the growth of this larger companies and like, the, the industries that would need a little bit of protection, right. So, I think we’ll get there.

Alex Jensen:  Yeah, well, it also seems to be a symptom of the rapid growth you described before in the post war period, that we have the old and the new, still existing, sometimes uncomfortably together. And we saw how those regulators made it very difficult for large foreign companies like Uber to come in and thrive KAKAO now feeling the pain, even on the domestic front, something for us to watch out for on track, I think on this podcast going forward. From the innovation and tech point of view, we wish you all the best with your future venture that you hinted at before, and we’ll have to catch up with you again and say, Lee.

Eunse Lee: Sounds good. Thanks for having me. I’ll be happy to come back anytime you want for part two.

Alex Jensen:  Well, thank you very much to investor Eunse Lee, as well as to our guest before that, Thomas summer of SG entertainment. And also of course, I want to say thank you to you for being with us today on Koreabizcast with the KBLA. We’ll be back next Tuesday from 7am Korea time for the next edition. As Monday is a holiday remember, so have a great long weekend. And then remember to make Koreabizcast part of your essential daily listening.