Alex Jensen: It’s Friday December 3^rd, you’re listening to Koreabizcast with the KBLA. I’m your host, Alex Jensen. And how much do you know about the welltech industry? In recent years, our app stores have been filling up with options and billions of dollars have been invested both from the perspective of business and user, how should we be approaching this apparently exciting area of growth. Maybe you’re already sitting there with some tech device telling you all your vitals and using that to enhance your performance at work or leisure, but I suspect we’re not all there. And much more on that on the way as this episode is brought to you by the Four Seasons Hotel Seoul, stylish elegance in the very heart of the city.

Alex Jensen: So, without further ado, let’s now welcome Ian Matthews, founder of Zenbok which deals with personal wellness and self-care. But also, and very importantly, for today’s discussion, Health Coaching via welltech which is apparently a very big thing, and he’s going to get even bigger. Ian, thank you as ever for joining us.

Ian Matthews: Thanks, Alex. Great to be here.

Alex Jensen: And I think this idea of having a health coach sounds wonderful people go to the gym for this kind of thing, perhaps also the vanity aspect. But it all comes together somehow. And Welltech is a big part of it now that we have this capability. Can you talk us through that briefly?

Ian Matthews: Yes. So, I had a sabbatical from technology after 20 years in a with the role signals with Cisco Systems. And even as e-learning, instructional designer in London, Alex, I just wanted to get away from the screen, I think. And so, I went to personal wellness and self-care and all natural forms of doing that Health Coaching found myself running my own boot camp around Dublin City Centre, which was amazing, totally enjoying it. And I thought that was that to be honest. But a guy called Ken Rosenblood and he’s the CEO of a company called ObVus Solutions. He contacted me on LinkedIn, and said can you profile? You’ve done a lot. And would you be interested in helping me develop my beta version of what is now an award-winning minder app? And maybe become one of my certified coaches too. And so, I said, yeah, you know, because this was so new. And I looked at the app and everything. And then I bought the iPhone, and you’ve got the Apple watch comes with it, too. And I realized how far welltech had come, Alex, I think is the point. Especially since the last time I had used it, I was still using polar straps to, you know, to do heart rate testing for my clients, in leisure centers and things like that. And for myself. And early versions of Fitbit, it’s much more engaging, the apps supremely well developed. And of course, the potential outreach now to clients worldwide. Yeah, I just had to say yes. So that’s where it, that’s where it’s at now, welltech, or wellness over welltech as far as I’m concerned.

Alex Jensen: So, people of all ages. It’s not just people who want to monitor their heart rate because they’re of a certain age or with a certain condition that the doctor has told them to look out for. But also, were of an age demographic, I think in Korea where it’s so wide for accessing the tech that smartphones and apps offer. So, it’s really ripe for widespread use and benefit.

Ian Matthews: Yeah, absolutely. And the minder app in particular out of, I’m going to mention three partners that I’m working with, but the minder app is gamified in parts. And it’s very, it’s got real time feedback, especially things like your real time breathing and you’re watching it on the screen as it’s happening. And you’re watching yourself leaning backwards and forwards, check your posture out. And not only that it’s highly educational and it’s giving guidance on unhealthy habits. And I just be interested I haven’t spoken to too many people in Korea about this just yet. I’d be, I’d love to know, you know, what sort of percentage of people are already interested in it? And again, if not, why not because it does have this engaging effect now for sure for all ages.

Alex Jensen: And the front running welltech service providers, they are designing these smart wearable devices, can we just get a better idea of them compared with the straps that measure the heart rate that you described before? I think we can all envisage. Sometimes I’m in Namsan Park, I see people jogging with various devices strapped to their arm. And I wonder, you know, what was going on there and could just be music play in their ears? of course. But can you give us a better idea of what might be going on?

Ian Matthews: Yeah, I, you know, I remember, again, just quickly harking back to the straps, I was in the gym this one time I was on duty in one of the gyms and this guy had one of the straps on it. And he suddenly came over to me and why does he share this as ‘I think I’m dying’. And I said, ‘Are you sure?’ and he said ‘Yeah, look at my heart rate’. And I could tell by his signs and symptoms, apart from the panic, and the fainting that he is actually, okay, I checked his pulse and everything else. And I said ‘It’s the polar strap made is not good. You’re fine. Your heart rates are right’. And that’s the kind of thing that used to go on with the technology back then.

Alex Jensen: Can I just interject for a moment and just say, even on the running machine, or the cycling machine, you know, like when you when you grip with your hand, you know, on the metal monitors, and they’ll tell you that your heart rate is beyond what it’s supposed to be? And I said, Well, you know, could I still be running? If it was really beyond where it’s supposed to be or is that just an indication of individual differentiation? Like, maybe you’re slightly better than when you’re supposed to be for your age group or something or is it just an accuracy?

Ian Matthews: It could be all of the above to be honest, but what I did find was that there was a lot of inaccuracies, especially things like calorie counting and stuff like that, I look at it and go now, this person hasn’t worked that hard, I need to make him work even harder. And because you can check his breathing rates, sweat, and stuff like that as well. But one interesting thing that I read recently was the University of Zaragoza in Spain there, they did an intense study on the Apple Watch, which is used with the minder app, and I use it often. And they specifically were looking at HRV, Heart Rate Variability which is a good sign of how well you are and how long you’re going to live. And they discovered because a lot of people were unsure that these days, it’s extremely accurate, you know, that never used to be the case. But it’s definitely, it is the case now. And I think that’s what’s drawing me back to it to be honest. You can there are tolerances in different tests, there’s all sorts of things you can check in yourself and, but those tolerances symptom to be much more narrower where you can believe them. And that’s good or you’ve got a health coach there saying, ‘Look, don’t worry. It’s probably Yeah, not quite, there’s something there’s something else going on there. We’ll have to have a look at but you’re fine’. You know, keep going or keep using this, keep checking every month or something like that. And that’s what I do I do Heart Rate Variability just once a month, make sure it’s as high as it can be my age. And if it’s not, then I can do something about it. That’s what I love about the welltech for sure.

Alex Jensen: And is that mainly exercise as a medicine or are there other things that you would be recommending in particular?

Ian Matthews: There’s many things for Heart Rate Variability, because it’s uniquely linked to the autonomic nervous system. So, you can do things like the exercise is crucial, but even eating healthier food at the right times, you know, not late at night, the big tuck in hydration, alcohol, sleeping, even taking, you know, in the morning a cold wash to the to the face or even a cold shower to the body that stimulates actually the opposite side. But the down the line, it’s actually improving your immunity system, your immune system, and that all of those things plus more combined to improve your Heart Rate Variability. So, you know, I’ll give them one or two to be getting on with especially the physical exercise, obviously.

Alex Jensen: As ever, we’re getting a free consultation here, Ian, you’re inspiring me because I do like the cold showers. I feel I’m quite unique in that respect because I speak different about it and, in the winter, yeah, a lot of doubters actually work.

Ian Matthews: They work. I know, they don’t feel like they just take it up in graduations, isn’t it? in the in the in the cold aspect.

Alex Jensen: There’s another aspect of this which is maybe the psychological side. I mean, I personally wouldn’t want to have a monitor on 24 hours. I wouldn’t want to get kind of obsessed with my body in that respect. But also, I might feel either distracted or one just not like the idea of having a monitor all the day. But what’s your thought on that?

Ian Matthews: Yeah, it’s a great question. And one that I’m always asked because people sort of, I think, get the fear that they’ll be wearing it all the time. And I don’t, you know, I’ll use it in limited periods, and typically three times a day is what I’ll do when I first get up in the morning because I’ll be doing my exercise routine and that’s non-negotiable. And it’s checking the performance and everything else, I’m seeing progressions which is wonderful. Get not doing anything extreme, particularly, then I’ll take it off until lunchtime, put it back on and it’ll, you could, you can program this, and I can do for consumers and and for myself, it will give me a nudge which I’ve already set up to say, well, now you’re taking your nature, not just time to go out for a walk. And these are the things again, that you forget to do a lot of the time. Health Coaching is so much about just awareness, giving people that awareness but now we’ve got the welltech to gently nudge them as well. So, I don’t feel it’s intrusive in any way shape of form compared to how we kind of used to be taught to wear this all the time, you know, I don’t, and the providers don’t ask me to do that or teach anybody to do that either. And I’ll do something on the evening that could be a meditation, it could be a self-hypnosis to help with optimal sleep patterns. So that’s the extent that I use it. And I get a lot of great information from that. Other things like Posture360, there’s a company I met William Choi there recently, he’s got sensors in the fabric of his sportswear gear now. And so again, that it’s there for you when you want, you can switch it on and off by your chest. That’s good. Like that’s like, like a red LED flashing there on your chest. But you can put a shirt over the top or do, you know, while you’re wearing sport, or you can just take it off. And I think that’s again, the job of the coach to make sure that people don’t get consumed by it. And as you’re quite rightly saying, and just use it for just distilling a few points that you’re particularly focusing on, depending on their own condition at the time.

Alex Jensen: I sense that a lot of people who would be listening to this might think, well, in an ideal world, I’d be going to the gym this number of times a week, I’d be eating healthy, I’d be sleeping well. I wouldn’t be sitting in front of the TV and drinking a glass of wine as soon as I’m back from work. But those are things that I also feel the need to do for my overall happiness. How do you find the right balance in a typical urban lifestyle where, you know, things like alcohol, rich food and TV are typical part of the evening winding down process?

Ian Matthews: Yeah, I think then you have to know the difference between wellness and wellbeing because wellness is doing everything that we’ve discussed so far. And it focuses predominantly on the physical side. But mental wellness now is, you know, becoming huge, as well as his personal world care. And that was something that I read in the Global Wellness Institute recent report is it’s in to 2025, I think it’s going to be a $7.5 trillion industry. And again, my point is people are becoming more aware of wanting to understand how their mind body and emotions work, but I’m no kill joy, you know, and I’m not expecting people to rule out all of the good things in life and wellbeing is happiness. That’s the short definition of wellbeing. And wellbeing as you’re absolutely right, my friend. It’s just as important in the right doses in the right balance, just be aware of when you’re kicking the backside out of it, really. But if you’ve got the wellness sorted with these, you know, the routines that you can do now and amazing support, which is your accountability partner that’s probably what I’d like the listeners to get out of this. It’s not a tracking tool, you know, we’ve got enough cameras on us and all that kind of thing. It’s an accountability partner that gives you a gentle nudge every now and then to make sure you do it. And then once you do it, do you know what? you probably enjoy the beam war, and the little Choco pie.

Alex Jensen: I’d like to get my calories from something a little richer than a Choco pie. But I like the comparison. I choose the calories wisely in other words. Ian, I’d like to ask your thoughts on introducing this at corporate level. I’ve noticed for example, the professional football teams, players across the world will now wear devices which are just measuring them constantly and they all do it. I presume they’re all just having to do it as part of their contracts. There’s a lot of money at stake in their wellbeing physically but even for your everyday companies that don’t gauge performance. directly based on physical wellbeing, do you think it’s something they might introduce on at least a voluntary basis to help improve the performance at work in any range of industries?

Ian Matthews: Yeah, I absolutely do because workplace wellness is going through a bit of a change as well. It used to be programming but it’s much more about culture and ergonomics now, Alex, to be honest, and so you’re bringing a solution to people and you can’t ignore welltech with the amount of information that you can gather, which again, that, you know, this confidentiality concerns like, I get that, but you can keep it really simple, where it’s not picking up anything that you don’t want it to pick up. And, you know, one on one, group team, wellness in the office or via home, is reminding people for me, again, it’s that awareness thing keeps coming back to the prioritizing your self-care is just as important as the job tasks you’re doing in the day if not more your productivity goes up studies show time and time again, your morale rises, you’ve got less doctor’s visits going on and you’ve got a health coach to put your mind at ease which means that you don’t have those visits to the, you know, to the clinic, and how much time and money is that saving these days? So, I think you’re gonna see it explode, Alex really, because I think people are getting there, their programs and their solutions in order to look at it as a cultural change that needs to be going on within the workplace.

Alex Jensen: You’ve actually just touched on my next question, which is, how does this fit in with Korea’s obsession with health checks, and a lot of that is pretty much compulsory in permanent employment positions where you have to do the regular health checks, and it’s all tied in with the National Insurance Scheme. But potentially could monitoring of this kind at least save a lot of time with those health checks removing the need for a number of them that people do? I mean, even on a regular visit to the doctor, they’ll often do your blood pressure, for example.

Ian Matthews: Yeah, I mean, the tests that they can be they can do now is so wide ranging. And again, that’s what drew me back to this. It goes everything you can do the Heart Rate Variability so important. And you’ll hear a lot about that over the next couple of years, I’m sure. Blood pressure now is something they can do through the Apple Watch oxidization, checking your oxygen levels, it’s pretty important these days, body fat and muscle mass see, these are all things if they’re not here, now that they’re right around the corner, even ECGs you can do, I’m not saying I’d want to take people through that I think I’d want a clinician to, you know, to be doing those kinds of things. But everything else is stuff that a good health coach is trained in to do and put people’s mind at rest to make sure that they understand what these figures are saying. And again, not get over consumed by them. It’s a preventative tool that for me is the whole point of the of welltech. And prevention is better than a cure. So, you know, these platforms are providing us with that access into our inner landscape in a way we’ve never had to do before. And we don’t have to, you know, there are people who go for a blood pressure test, and they see a white coat and their blood pressure doubles, It rocks.

Alex Jensen: Every time?

Ian Matthews: Exactly. And they get sent away for an hour to try calm down. You can do it yourself and stabilize it over three or four times in the day. And you’ll get a better picture, I’m sure. And if there’s a problem, call your health coach, he’ll probably say go see a doc.

Alex Jensen: And actually, that’s the next part. So, health coach, it’s not a doctor per se, but it is someone who has to be well versed on these issues. How can we both trust the human and also trust the technology?

Ian Matthews: Yeah, the coaches, especially with the three platforms that I I’m working with Posture360 where we’re still discussing things, maybe doing some live video calls, you know, on their Health Coaching side of the website. Obviously, like I say that, you know, I’m heavily involved with that team. And the people they’re all incredibly passionate people and highly qualified. My training to be on board as a certified minder coach was some of the best that I’ve seen, and I’ve been in fitness for 20 years, you know, they’ve got they take industry experts out of their normal day and ask them, you know, as an outreach kind of thing to give training, and I did that with nutrition experts with postural experts, etc. I know for a fact that people Posture360 are mad passionate about what they do. William Choi went into this because he was suffering from years of pain and back pain. He wouldn’t mind me saying that because he mentions it on all of his videos and stuff. And he wanted to do something about it to really help people. And the last one is called TaskHuman. And again, the vetting procedure for me just to be able to give coaching, like I’m doing now was intense, you know, there was calls, there was inductions, I was teaching via Zoom, then discussions with the higher echelon and an ongoing training, Alex, that’s what I’m saying. I can’t, I can’t guarantee that every single welltech provider is like this, of course. But what I would hope out again, this call is that people, especially in Korea, just give it a go, you know, if you want the gamified, you know, high tech really involved, total wellbeing go for obvious solutions. If you want primarily posture but you want to wear something which is amazing with a sensor on you and actually the cloth drags your shoulders back to help your posture to, I can’t think of many people who want to be doing that. And it’s helping with the forward tilt in your neck, which is what a lot of people down the line are gonna get, because they’re looking down at the phones, you know, this is real time stuff, and produced by really passionate caring people and, you know, proof, you know, highly qualified in most cases, they’ve been in the industry themselves most of them for many years.

Alex Jensen: Just drawing on your experience. And I know that you’ve celebrated the technology that’s already there which is great. But is there something that stands out for you that’s still missing that someone listening now might develop the next app that could be really helpful?

Ian Matthews: That’s a good question. I think the one thing that got me was, you know, that there are these limitations because you’re doing this over Zoom. And the TaskHuman guys do this. And we are where we are with technology with the pandemic and everything else. And as I mentioned earlier on, because of the pandemic, people are much more health conscious that there is a there is a sea change that’s happened. So we have to make do with what we’ve got, I think and that the real time voice call aspect again, for me, was the thing that I really enjoyed doing, again because you’re really seeing people again, and you’re, you know, health coaches can see what’s going on within people and ask the right questions based on how they look like they’re feeling, I remember how to a consultation myself with an ayurvedic doctor and it was scary how much she knew about me, and in terms of, you know, things that I could be improving and thinking that I’m, you know, pretty healthy guy and everything, which I am. But it was amazing what she picked up and she did that on the Zoom. So, I don’t think it needs to be anything new, I just need to, I just, you just want to make sure like I say that the tolerances and all these tests, whether its resting heart rate, blood pressure, oxidization are as good as they can be. And you can trust them, and use that as the prevention again, rather than the cure to take action when you need to. And that’s the strength of all of the platforms as far as I’m concerned. But ones with video. Yeah, I think there’s the welltech even over video, I did an 80minutes call to a guy in Bangalore the other day, you know, 80 minutes, we’re doing a self, I took him through a self-hypnosis session. And it was completely well received to booking me again. So, it’s extremely powerful still even just using a video based coaching approach online.

Alex Jensen: Well, Ian, as always thank you so much for taking us through your work and maybe feeding the imaginations of some corporate leaders out there who’d like to embrace some of your welltech.

Ian Matthews: Yeah, get them on it, you know, with me, all the providers etc. And, but just get people introduced to it. Because again, I don’t know the extent of how much is used here compared to all the other apps and stuff but those are the ones that I would recommend and thanks for the airtime for allowing me to do that, Alex, and the great questions

Alex Jensen: Well, absolutely, thank you for saying so. Ian Matthews is Zenbok founder and also talking to us today about his health coaching via welltech. Maybe you’ve felt something through this conversation that you’d like to implement as I suggested before or you’ve got another story that you’d like to share with us. We welcome all ideas through the KBLA account on LinkedIn. You can also email info@kbla.net. A big thank you as ever to our sponsor for today’s episode Four Seasons Hotel Seoul. We’ll be back again on Monday. Have a great weekend.