Alex Jenson  00:08

You’re listening to Koreabizcast with the KBLA. I’m your host Alex Jensen, and it’s Thursday, February 17. Now do you miss you’re cured and smoked meats from wherever you’ve come to Korea from? Maybe you’ve always been based in Korea, but you’ve had the chance to taste such delights while traveling abroad. Or perhaps you’ve come across Salt House and learned the secret of being able to enjoy a fine Reuben sandwich, for example, right here in Seoul. As I’ll explain, that’s exactly what I had the opportunity to do. And today we’re going to hear from one of the key figures behind the project and learn how they got it off the ground, and how they keep on soaring apparently, before we get there. Let me thank today’s sponsor Eastpoint Partners, offering an unparalleled Asia wide network of relationships with corporates, governments, and investors. Well, now ready to whet my appetite. I’m convinced perhaps yours as well. We have Co Founder and CTO of Salt House. George Durham on the line. Thank you for joining us.

George Durham  01:21

My pleasure.

Alex Jenson  01:22

You know it was a little while ago, I was introduced to the Salt House location, basically a short walk from Anguk station near Gwanghwamun. I can still remember vividly the deliciousness of my Reuben sandwich. So I’m not just doing this blind. I have had the Salt House experience. But I would love to have more of it. And I don’t know why I haven’t. I’m going to make it a point to come and visit again very, very soon. Can you tell us though, for those who’ve never experienced it before, what they expect to find on your menu because it really is unique? It stands out from mostly other Seoul lunch experiences that I find anyway.

George Durham  02:05

Well, if you go to one of our delis, you’re going to get mainly sandwiches. And the special thing about the sandwiches is that we’re doing all the meat, so you’re gonna get really good ham, really good pastrami, really good salami, all that all those all those deli meats.

Alex Jenson  02:23

What was it about those particular types of food that appeal to you in the first place?

George Durham  02:28

Well, I mean, I think objectively, they taste pretty good. And I just liked the the, the sort of how it takes time and few ingredients. And with those few ingredients, you can produce something, something special.

Alex Jenson  02:49

But I suppose from a business perspective is also what I’m driving at. Because we’re living in an era where being vegan is fashionable, talking about salt in food is not particularly fashionable. Talking about eating cured meats is not particularly fashionable. And that’s all the rage in your locations. So was there a moment before you started this business in the first place where you’re wondering whether it would take off in Korea?

George Durham  03:15

Well, I mean, when I started, I don’t think veganism I don’t think Koreans even knew what that meant. So I didn’t I wasn’t trying to follow any trends or anything like that. It was too this is too slow of a of a food to be a trend, I think, yeah, I just did what I like to to eat and ignored sort of what the trends were.

Alex Jenson  03:37

I’ll circle back to that a little bit, because I want to now just take a bigger step back into your story, so we can learn more, where the idea came from, where you became Co- Founder of Salt House and how that came about?

George Durham  03:53

Sure. I don’t know how far back I should go. But I was in Korea and not planning to do anything in the culinary world. Because I had worked back in the US and kind of quit and decided not to do it again.

Alex Jenson  04:12

What sort of timeline was this just to get a picture of that?

George Durham  04:16

Okay, let’s see. I came to Korea in 2012 and Salt House started, I think I cured my first bacon in my apartment in 2015. So that’s that’s how it started. It was me wanting to eat bacon, and just getting some using a cardboard box and wood pellets and smoking it in my little closet with a window in the back of my studio apartment. And then having a little having a little bacon party for my friends. And that’s really where it started. After the positive response from that I thought maybe I could actually sell this stuff.

Alex Jenson  04:56

Yeah, so presumably this is a bit like some of the other stories I’ve heard people who’ve got a passion for bread making or for vegan food as it happens, or perhaps even for cocktails and they’ve gone out and they’ve made that a retail dream. What was that for you, those specific steps? You don’t have to go into great detail, but it’d be nice to know how you went from pleasing your friends. Yeah. And your first Salt House.

George Durham  05:26

Okay, well, let’s see in the beginning, um, I’m doing it at home in my refrigerator, and closet. And I had made a slab of bacon and I wanted to have it sliced on a on a proper meat slicer. So I went to the, you know, Mangwon Sijang, where I still live nearby. And I asked a butcher there, if he could slice it for me on I brought it to him and asked him to slice it for me, which he did for free. Went back again a few weeks later, and he refused to do it, because of the smoke smell, forced him to clean a slicer. And at that point, I decided, Okay, I better go out and buy a slicer. Did that, put it in my apartment on the kitchen table, decided that that was too big. And so I rented a small space. And that turned into our first production kitchen. I rented a space with my Korean friend who’s who became my partner. And he turned out to be great even though he had no background in business or in cooking turned out to be really great at his job. He’s a designer. And from that space, that’s really where we started. And the growth was, you know, there are lots of setbacks and everything, of course, but it was steady. And it’s just simple simply was growing customers at a time adding equipment, getting bigger, expanding to the new place, slowly and steadily. And the initial idea was to sort of sell the stuff online, just packs. And we did that for a few years. And then we had the idea to open a retail location. And that’s when that’s when we sort of became known.

Alex Jenson  07:25

When I made my visit to that location near Anguk, there was a lot of buzz about it. I was told we had to get there early, there’s gonna be a long queue, et cetera. So how have people gotten to know about it from the story you’ve described? It doesn’t sound like you’ve gone out there and, and spent a lot of money on advertising or anything of that nature.

George Durham  07:43

Yeah, we’ve never focused on advertising at all. We’ve never spent any money on advertising. We did we were sort of growing steadily in popularity, and well, not steadily, growing slowly in popularity. And then what happened that really gives a huge boost was appearing on a Korean TV show, what’s called, you know, Suyomisikhwoi And that brought a huge influx of customers for a few for like a few weeks. And that sort of took us to the next level. And we sort of maintained from there.

Alex Jenson  08:23

And it’s still doing really well, so much so that you’ve now got three locations, you’ve got another couple of kitchens, don’t you? What’s the current status of the business?

George Durham  08:34

The current status is we’ve just opened a production facility, a factory for the handmaking. Very, and that’s allowed us to really take it to the next level with our products. We’re up to about 80 employees at all the various locations. We’ve got the three retail locations, we’ve got a development kitchen, we’ve got another retail location in the works. Yeah,

Alex Jenson  09:10

How long before we can get high quality bacon then and pancetta and all that sort of stuff that can be quite hard to get in your local mart, how long before we can be assured of finding Salt House products, at least in some of the larger stores?

George Durham  09:24

In the larger store as well, that is actually, that is difficult. The thing about what we do is, it’s easy to make small amount. And this the greater the amount, the new challenges that presents and to get to that level is is something and I don’t know if we be able to maintain the same quality that we have, and be able to sell it at say like an Emart type type scale.

Alex Jenson  09:52

Premium supermarkets on the horizon.

George Durham  09:55

Premium supermarket, yeah one day, if we can do that. Right now we are barely able to keep up with our own demand for our retail outlets and our b2b sales.

Alex Jenson  10:11

It does suggest to answer a question that I posed earlier on about the rise of veganism that there is still a great appetite for meat out there. And indeed meat that is preserved in that way, does it get an unfair reputation when people draw links between those types of foods and I don’t even want to mention the diseases because then I’ll feed the reputation further.

George Durham  10:34

Sure. I don’t think it’s an unfair reputation at all. I don’t recommend people overeat processed meats or meat in general, and I think veganism is fantastic for many reasons. So I think that our products are something that should be enjoyed in moderation. And it can be, it’s okay, as long as it’s, you know, in moderation.

Alex Jenson  11:03

You know, hearing you speak, so down to earth, you’re so grounded about it all. Yet, the experience that I had, that I sent some others is that there’s this tremendous buzz about what you’re doing as well as I refer to. What do you think it is about what you’re offering? Is it the authenticity we spoke to a restaurateur Todd sample before and he was a big proponent, during our interviews on this issue of authenticity, and how that really appeals to a certain type of diner?

George Durham  11:36

I honestly, I don’t believe in authenticity, what I think we focus on is giving people what they want in terms of, you know, taste or experience. But for me, it’s mostly all about the actual taste. And what we do is we’re very, we have no ego. We don’t care about following the rules, you know, if like, a traditional French sandwich must be a certain way, if the Korean sort of taste is, if they prefer more butter on their sandwich, we put more butter on the sandwich, then a French person would be comfortable with, for instance, because it appeals to Koreans. So we listen to the customers we and we adapt. And so what I think has driven the popularity, the popularity is simply the taste.

Alex Jenson  12:34

How do you decide the taste, then is there a group of people that you trust their taste buds on perhaps people who first applauded your bacon together and tested out with?

George Durham  12:46

I cannot, I have to say like, I cannot trust my taste what I if, if I made everything the way that I liked it, exactly, our things would be too salty and too big. So I what I mean, I’ll listen to anyone. And it’s sort of sum up all of the feedback that I get in anything that’s is constructive, I will listen to and, and try to implement it somehow. And that that’s, that’s taste that’s portion size, that’s plating all sorts of things.

Alex Jenson  13:21

From the hard business side, I mean, you’ve clearly got a product that people want to buy, and you’ve got an attitude, that means you’re going to keep evolving, hopefully in the direction of people wanting to buy it still in the future. But learning how to scale up, learning how to fund this in the first place, finding the right partner, what was that like for you? And how did it play on some of the experiences you’d had before? How much in other words was playing it by ear and how much was drawing on your education, instincts or otherwise?

George Durham  13:51

Let’s see. That’s a big question. In terms of scaling up, it was very much just learning on the job, honestly. Because the bigger you get, the fewer YouTube tutorials there are really like if you want to make a slab of bacon, in your in your fridge at home, you can  find it online, it’s very easy. If you want to make two tonnes of ham a week, that technique, those tricks, they aren’t really shared. Other companies aren’t really giving out that information. We just found it out very gradually made many mistakes. And you know, I tried to learn wherever I could. I I went to the US for a week as pretending to be like a students to do an externship at a meat factory and took as many pictures as I could when I was there and that that has been paying off for years. So I’ve just been grabbing information wherever I could. Nothing from my background really prepared me for this job. But it’s been a sort of learn as I go experience.

Alex Jenson  15:11

But at the same time, it’s not sounding like it’s been gung ho at all you’ve prepared, you’ve gone to the US, as you just described, you’ve taken things slowly. It’s not been a fast burning exercise by any means. Do you worry about that point that some chains hit though, like when you get to a point of growth, where you’re not sure whether you can sustain it? And do you have a plan for that moment?

George Durham  15:36

Well, we are trying to, for example, diversify a bit. We have one sandwich which has been so popular more than any other product for so long. And it’s still popular, but it is, it’s scary to depend on that one thing. So we have, we are diversifying a bit. One of our.. we’ve opened a pie shop, as opposed to a deli, which has completely different products. And we’re just trying to focus on a lot of different products, so that if for some reason, our most popular item were to fall out of fashion, we have something else to fall back on.

Alex Jenson  16:21

Well, it sounds like a sound plan. There is one other aspect of running a restaurant that I’m always very intrigued by when I speak to restaurant owners and that is how you got to grips with a retail space suddenly becoming really busy. Before university I worked as a waiter. And like Friday and Saturday nights were hectic so stressful and working with pros. When you started out and you didn’t have your big staff. What was it like when you when you first saw tables full and people waiting?

George Durham  16:53

Well, I was just very thankful because you know, when we first opened the retail location, there’s nothing more depressing than being in a slow restaurant, as a cook. And doubly so if you’re the owner. And you’re looking at your bored employees. So that actually that was that way for a few months. So I think that if by the time that we were busy, I was so thankful that I didn’t mind the hecticness of it. Is

Alex Jenson  17:25

This now you the restaurant life? Or do you see yourself recreating and reinventing a new career for yourself in the coming years, either here in Korea or elsewhere?

George Durham  17:37

I’m pretty sure that this is going to be my path for a good long time. But my job, my day to day duties is very different today from how it was a few years ago. I don’t really get to cook much anymore. I certainly don’t get to work in my own restaurant on the line. In fact, I wouldn’t do a good job I’ve because it’s because after you know things evolve naturally on their own, we have managers and workers and they figure out new things. So I think that my job will continue, my duties on the job will continue to change but I will definitely stay in this particular business and company.

Alex Jenson  18:19

I talked about the Reuben sandwich that I tried. I’m looking forward to diving into some of the platters that I have witnessed other people enjoying as well. If anybody wants to go and whet their appetite further. Is Instagram the best place to find you or what would be the most appropriate recommended route?

George Durham  18:51

Yeah, Instagram. I think if you go to Instagram and you and you type in our name, you’ll find a lot of people posting and you’ll see everything that we have and you can find out about that. Hashtag SoeumJib in Korean will probably generate the most results. Yeah. Or hashtag Salt House

Alex Jenson  19:10

Well George Durham, thank you so much. I’m going to be doing that. Exactly. Now. I’m sure a few others will be joining me as well. A nice idea to visit at the weekend. Actually, one final practical question. Because I’ve not I’ve not heard about people going on the weekend. It’s been a place that I’ve been hearing people going to, for example, for lunch when they’re at work. Is it a good dinner place to go to on the weekend as well? For instance? Yeah,

George Durham  19:33

Absolutely. We have a lot I mean, charcuterie board with wine is something that you can enjoy dinner and maybe not so much at lunch,

Alex Jenson  19:42

Something to expand the horizons a little further and George Durham best of luck with salt house going forward. I’m sure I’ll be wandering around Shinsegae, Lotte department store food section and I’ll be seeing a Salt House brand, whether it’s something that you sought out all those years ago and your kitchen are not, well done.

George Durham  20:03

Thank you very much nice talking to you.

Alex Jenson  20:06

Well, experiencing a lot of hunger right now great to be able to combine the passions of food and business in one nice package. Let’s also thank Eastpoint Partners again for making today’s episode possible. Let me thank you for tuning in. Please do so again tomorrow. And if you want to find us on LinkedIn, in the meantime, just search KBLA.